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Author Topic: Staff Styles not working
mikep
Newbie
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Posts: 47


Im working with Finale 2011 VDL 2.5.2 mac template, and I can't get staff styles to work. I'm input aux parts, so I'm switching channels often, and I apply a new staff style to match the sound I'm using, and the notes don't change. Has this process changed.

Also, the susp. cymbals as part of the marimba sounds do not map correctly. Is there a fix for that?
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TBoliske
Sr. Member
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Posts: 363


Mike,

The Staff Styles that were part of the templates appear to have been broken in one of the Finale updates. with regards to the SusCym part of the marimbas, there is a SusCym Staff Style which is part of the default Finale libraries. Have you tried using that style? It sets all of the suspended cymbal sounds to a single line staff.
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Ted Boliske

Mac OS 10.12, 10.14, 10.15, Win7, Win10
VDL2.5.5, Finale 2010-14.5, Finale 25-27
Kontakt 4-6, various other soft synths
mikep
Newbie
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Posts: 47


So I can set the marimbas to that staff style permanently? As for the staff styles, what's the solution?
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TBoliske
Sr. Member
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Posts: 363


Use that SusCym staff style only on the measures that require the suspended cymbal part. For the other issue, it should be a combination of staff styles and text expressions for both instrument changes and the percussion midi map changes.
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Ted Boliske

Mac OS 10.12, 10.14, 10.15, Win7, Win10
VDL2.5.5, Finale 2010-14.5, Finale 25-27
Kontakt 4-6, various other soft synths
mikep
Newbie
*
Posts: 47


I often have measures on the marimba that have pitched notes and a cymbal roll, does it work in that instance?

As for the staff styles, I'm not following. What I've been doing, for example, is create a staff style, using percussion notation, choosing the appropriate notation style (map) from the list. I then enter a program change, assign the staff style, and then enter the notes. This is the procedure that worked for me previously. With the new templates, the notes do not map correctly. The correct sounds do play.

You said that the templates appear to have been broken. What exactly does that mean? I guess my major question is, what's the solution? Thanks.
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mikep
Newbie
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Posts: 47


Also, I've just picked the existing staff style from the list (I didn't notice that previously). But it still doesn't work.
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TBoliske
Sr. Member
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Posts: 363


Mike,

You don't mention which operating system you're using so the results may be different.

I tested the staff style changes using Mac OS 10.7 and switched from a marimba to djembe. Both instruments were on separate midi channels but remained on the same layer of the staff. After entering notes for the marimba I then used 2 text expressions for the first measure of the new instrument. One expression for the instrument change, in this example you would need to change the midi channel. The second expression to change the percussion midi map. This is what is currently 'broken', I'll explain the problem in a moment. There are actually basic expressions included with the templates to do these changes. They would need to be edited for the individual situation.

After applying the expressions, switch to the Staff Tool and highlight the region or measures for the new instrument. Once they have been highlighted, from the Staff menu select Apply Staff Style and choose the appropriate style. The staff styles which came with the templates set the percussion layout. At this point you should now begin entering notes for the new instrument. Remember that after you're done with this instrument, you will need to enter a text expression to switch back to your original instrument or repeat the process for any additional instruments.

Now the problem that has arisen. When entering notes for the non-pitched instruments you can identify which note name is being entered. The XML files for VDL and the percussion layouts use a combination of Finale names and Custom names to complete the list of sounds available with each VDL instrument. What I'm seeing is that the Custom names appear only as 'Custom #' while the Finale names appear as the should.

The next step in testing is to see how this functions when using layers and a bank of instruments. The advantage of using a bank within Kontakt is that you may use up to 128 instruments all assigned to 1 midi channel. In this case, instead of using a text expression for a channel change it would be for a patch change. I'll also need to check on the staff style for the suspended cymbals.

I'll keep you updated on results.
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Ted Boliske

Mac OS 10.12, 10.14, 10.15, Win7, Win10
VDL2.5.5, Finale 2010-14.5, Finale 25-27
Kontakt 4-6, various other soft synths
mikep
Newbie
*
Posts: 47


Ted,

I'm running 10.5.8. I didn't know about doing a text expression for the map change. All I've been doing is picking a new staff style, and changing the sound source (channel) with a text expression. This is what used to work before I switched to these new templates for 2011. So am I missing a step? or is it not working anyway?

Let me know what you find. Thanks.

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TBoliske
Sr. Member
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Posts: 363


It looks as though you're missing the second expression for the percussion map change. Also, check the staff style making certain that you are setting the notation style to percussion and selecting the appropriate percussion layout.
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Ted Boliske

Mac OS 10.12, 10.14, 10.15, Win7, Win10
VDL2.5.5, Finale 2010-14.5, Finale 25-27
Kontakt 4-6, various other soft synths
mikep
Newbie
*
Posts: 47


Changing the staff style layout is what I thought changed the map. So how do you do the text expression for that? I never had to do that before using these templates, so that's new to me. Thanks for the help.
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mikep
Newbie
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Posts: 47


Just to make sure I understand where we are, what I'm attempting to do does not work for you either, or for that matter, anyone using these templates? How are people writing aux. parts and not running into this?

I followed exactly what you described, in my case switching from the Concert Band Combo to Rack B. I used one text expression to change the channel, one to change the map, and then assigned the staff style to the measures. Then entered the notes and the same results - the correct sounds with the incorrect notes showing.

I don't mean to be pushy about this, but I'm right in the middle of trying to get music out to people, and I end up having to make two separate scores - one for sound play back, and then another where I completely rewrite all the aux. parts to display correctly. I can't imagine that everyone else using these templates are having the same difficulty.
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TBoliske
Sr. Member
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Posts: 363


Mike,

What I'm currently seeing is correct sounds and correct playback, but not correct note names for the custom note name types. The custom note name types are those which do not have a Finale created name (one which came with the default Finale installation). One thing I'd like to verify is, are you creating the instrument and adding it to the Instrument List?
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Ted Boliske

Mac OS 10.12, 10.14, 10.15, Win7, Win10
VDL2.5.5, Finale 2010-14.5, Finale 25-27
Kontakt 4-6, various other soft synths
mikep
Newbie
*
Posts: 47


Not sure I'm following. I'll have a staff for an aux part, and start it off with an assigned sound, say Rack B - on channel 13. Then when I want to switch for a new sound, I just put in a program change for a different channel, lets say Concert band combo on channel 14, then assign a staff style change for the measure or measures I'll be using it, then enter the notes. I also added a text expression to change the map, as you suggested. In the past, I have not needed to declare a new instrument in the instrument list for the sounds that weren't assigned to a specific staff at the beginning of the song. Is what I need to do?
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TBoliske
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 363


Mike,

That's exactly right. You'll need to go to the Instrument List > View Instruments > Create Instrument. Make sure that to assign the Midi channel and select the correct percussion maps.
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Ted Boliske

Mac OS 10.12, 10.14, 10.15, Win7, Win10
VDL2.5.5, Finale 2010-14.5, Finale 25-27
Kontakt 4-6, various other soft synths
mikep
Newbie
*
Posts: 47


I'll give it a shot. thanks
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