Anomalies with solo strings in S7S and The Write Score Soundsets

[JanSteele]

[Please see attached pdf and sib files for full details including a table]
Hi people at The Write Score,

I've come across some anomalies with the solo string instruments in S7S and The Write Score Soundsets. It may be my lack of understanding of how the S7S sounds and soundsets work - but it may also be that something isn't quite set up correctly in the soundsets. I was wondering if you could enlighten me.

I was exploring entering text into Solo Violin 1 while I was trying out the S7S Library_7.1.2 template with the S7S Library Soundset (as downloaded from the Sibelius website), and I found that entering pizz and bartok pizz produced bartok pizz only. Since this seemed odd, I thought I would try other markings that I would expect to get with a solo violin, and I realized that I was getting another sound that isn't mentioned in your Maps (col legno). I found similar problems in some of the other solo strings files. Not being clear whether this was an issue with the Soundsets or the library or me, I have systematically tried this in every combination of Soundset and MS or template that I could think of, and I've entered the results in the attached table. I have also attached the sib files I've been using as documented in the tables.

I would be grateful if you could explain to me what is happening here.  Many thanks.

Jan Steele


TWS Edit: removed S7S Template file that contains proprietary information. Contact developer(s) directly if Template files need to be sent to them.

[Hugh Smith]

Hi Jan, welcome to the forum. Let's see if I can cover everything.

S7S_Library_7.1.2.sib
This file should NOT be used in normal writing projects. It is for sampling the sounds only, review pages 11-12 of the S7S User Guide for more. Can also watch the video demo.

Sibelius_Sounds_Issue_Blank_MS_Sibelius_Instruments_added.sib
When using the default instrument definitions, use one of the default S7S sound sets. If you try to use the "S7S SoundSet 7.1a" file, you're very likely to get mixed results.

Sibelius_Sounds_Issue_S7S_Template_1a_MS.sib
This score plays back for me as I would expect it to. Are you using "S7S SoundSet 7.1a" for this? (The Staff Text "col legno" has no definition in the Dictionary and thus will have no effect - "col leg" is set to use the "Whole word".)

Questions on S7S_Library_7.1.2 second version.pdf
With "S7S SoundSet 7.1a" assigned to Sibelius Player, do the PlayTest files playback properly for you? Other than that, please note the sound variations from the PlayTest files that I've included on each stave. These are the sounds that have actual samples with which to playback. For all other variations that are possible and not specifically listed, Sibelius will do its best to "fake it".

Let me know how this goes.

Oh, are you using any other libraries besides S7S? If so, please attach a screen shot of your Playback Configuration.

Hugh

[JanSteele]

S7S_Library_7.1.2.sib
This file should NOT be used in normal writing projects. It is for sampling the sounds only.

Ok I get this.

.....are you using any other libraries besides S7S? If so, please attach a screen shot of your Playback Configuration.

I have several other libraries installed on my computer, but I wasn't trying to use them in combination with the Sibelius 7 Sounds.

Questions on S7S_Library_7.1.2 second version.pdf
With "S7S SoundSet 7.1a" assigned to Sibelius Player, do the PlayTest files playback properly for you? Other than that, please note the sound variations from the PlayTest files that I've included on each stave. These are the sounds that have actual samples with which to playback.

Yes they play back as written.

Sibelius will do its best to "fake it".

So does this mean that if I add - say - "col leg", to the Violin Solo 1 part, Sibelius is playing back the closest "col leg" sound it can find - i.e. the Violins 1 col leg sample? If so this clearly explains all the extra sounds which I wasn't expecting!

Sibelius_Sounds_Issue_Blank_MS_Sibelius_Instruments_added.sib
When using the default instrument definitions, use one of the default S7S sound sets. If you try to use the "S7S SoundSet 7.1a" file, you're very likely to get mixed results.

OK. But when I used the "Sibelius 7 Sounds" soundset, I get this issue with Contrabass (solo). "bartok pizz" produces regular pizz, whereas according to the Maps there should be "bartok pizz." available.

Sibelius_Sounds_Issue_S7S_Template_1a_MS.sib
This score plays back for me as I would expect it to. Are you using "S7S SoundSet 7.1a" for this?

Yes I am.

(The Staff Text "col legno" has no definition in the Dictionary and thus will have no effect - "col leg" is set to use the "Whole word".)

OK

Sibelius_Sounds_Issue_S7S_Template_1a_MS.sib with "S7S SoundSet 7.1a"

All my issues about this combination are cleared up by your other answers. Except that in Cello Solo 2 something odd happens when selecting Cello Solo 2 in the "Add or Remove Instruments" Dialogue. There is a Cello Solo 2 listed in the S7S Template 7.1a collection. If you select it and add it to the "Staves in score" column, it appears there labelled as "+ Cello Solo 2" just like other instruments, but in the score it appears as another "Cello Solo 1". Back in the "Add or Remove Instruments" dialogue, it also now appears as another "Cello Solo 1". It is only possible to get "Cello Solo 2" into the score by changing the instrument name in the score directly.

Thanks for your help.

Jan

[Hugh Smith]

Hi Jan. Looks like you've got most of it squared away. Let me see if I can answer your other questions.

Sibelius will do its best to "fake it".

So does this mean that if I add - say - "col leg", to the Violin Solo 1 part, Sibelius is playing back the closest "col leg" sound it can find - i.e. the Violins 1 col leg sample? If so this clearly explains all the extra sounds which I wasn't expecting!

Not exactly ... and yes. The "fake it" part usually comes into play when there is no sound ID to change to. But since with the example you have given, technically there is, and Sibelius decides to use that "ID".

Sibelius_Sounds_Issue_Blank_MS_Sibelius_Instruments_added.sib
When using the default instrument definitions, use one of the default S7S sound sets. If you try to use the "S7S SoundSet 7.1a" file, you're very likely to get mixed results.

OK. But when I used the "Sibelius 7 Sounds" soundset, I get this issue with Contrabass (solo). "bartok pizz" produces regular pizz, whereas according to the Maps there should be "bartok pizz." available.

A Dictionary definition of "bartok pizz" with a sound ID change of "+pizzicato.bartok" is required. I thought I remember seeing this as one of the default Dictionary items, but that doesn't seem to be the case now. Or I told the guys at Sibelius about this and they never fixed it. Yeah, I think that's what happened (along with a few other items like this). You can add it yourself if you'd like.

All my issues about this combination are cleared up by your other answers. Except that in Cello Solo 2 something odd happens when selecting Cello Solo 2 in the "Add or Remove Instruments" Dialogue. There is a Cello Solo 2 listed in the S7S Template 7.1a collection. If you select it and add it to the "Staves in score" column, it appears there labelled as "+ Cello Solo 2" just like other instruments, but in the score it appears as another "Cello Solo 1". Back in the "Add or Remove Instruments" dialogue, it also now appears as another "Cello Solo 1". It is only possible to get "Cello Solo 2" into the score by changing the instrument name in the score directly.

Yup, that's a Template error. For scores you're working in, or to fix the Template file, you can edit the instrument itself. Go to Home > Instruments > Edit Instruments, select Ensemble: - S7S Template 7.1a > Family: Strings > Cello Solo 2. Add an "I" to each of the last four fields under Name. Click OK. You can also compare this instrument's setup to others if you get bored. See attached image. (This will be corrected if/when an update is released.)


Hugh