Template Issues

[Bob]

I am on a Mac with the latest version of Sibelius, Kontact5, VDL 2.5, and have also purchased the template for VDL from here but have had nothing but problems and am at a dead end after reviewing all of the documentation from TWS and Avid.  I've reviewed the installation guide at least three times and am fairly confident that everything is installed as outlined.

Prior to purchasing VDL I had mistakenly assumed that the sound libraries would work with any template and arranged something using the Sibelius drum corps battery template.  It's fairly polished and complete and was hoping to use it, but after installing VDL the snare and tenor sounds are fantastic but the bass drum sound like faint sounding kick drums and wood blocks (depending upon which drum).  I copied and pasted the parts into TWS VDL template hoping for better results, but while I am getting a tonal bass drum sound now (better but not quite genuine sounding as I had hoped), the snare parts sound much worse (especially on rolls).  I have to get a working audio file done soon and am facing having to export the snare and tenor parts from the original score and the bass drum part from the part using the TWS template into Final Cut and mixing them together there.  Not a very efficient workflow after having dropped a bundle of cash on these products.

If someone can help in pointing me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.  I don't know if something isn't configured right or if something isn't clicking with me somewhere or where the issue lies.  With or without the VDL template, I would think something would work or there would be an easy way to at least remap the sounds to the existing Sibelius templates to fix the bass drum sounds.  Thank you.

[Hugh Smith]

Hi Bob, welcome to the forum!

Exactly what versions of software are you using?

Please attach a screen shot of your Sibelius Playback Configuration.

[Bob]

Hi Hugh:

Thank you very much for the welcome. I'm using Sibelius 8.4.1 with VDL 2.5 and Kontakt 5. I've attached a screenshot as you had asked, please let me know if you need any more information.  Thanks!

Bob

[Hugh Smith]

Hi Bob.

If you are in fact using VDL 2.5 and not VDL 2.5.5, the first thing to do is to upgrade to VDL 2.5.5.

Playback Config looks good.

With or without the VDL template, I would think something would work or there would be an easy way to at least remap the sounds to the existing Sibelius templates to fix the bass drum sounds.

It is possible to do all this without the Template, but the learning curve for figuring it out and then the time to implement it literally takes months (there is no "easy way"). $30 is a steal for having it all immediately at your fingertips. Anyway...


Does VDL playback properly when in stand alone mode?

Do the TriggerTest files playback properly?

[Bob]

I do not have a keyboard hooked up to my Mac but I used the on-screen one built into the Kontakt player and tried each separate VDL sound library (each one for cymbals, tenors, snare, and bass drums) and they all sound fine.  So I believe that VDL is working fine as a stand alone.  I have not tried the trigger tests and would need to find where to read up on how to do that. 

In addition to using a playback configuration using Kontakt 5 (AU) and VDL Soundset 7.0a, I have created a couple of others using Kontakt 5 (AU) and Virtual Drumline 2.5 as the soundset and converted my score (in the original Sibelius template) to that playback configuration but the was no change in the bass drum sounds.

I wish I could attach an audio file of the bass sounds that play with the built in template.  If the bass sounds are mapped to the wrong sounds I don't know how they can be remapped to the proper ones from VDL. 

Regarding the template - I actually do think now that it is configured properly, and yes, it certainly does make the $30 worth it to save you so much valuable time.  I did discover that I mistakenly grabbed the wrong template and was using the one for Sibelius 5 (the entire file name was not showing in Finder). But even with Sibelius 7 template, the snare and tenor rolls do not sound very good but the bass and cymbals are all fine. If I can't get the bass sounds in the other template to map to better samples, is there a way to have the rolls in the TWS template map to better audio for rolls?

[Hugh Smith]

I have not tried the trigger tests and would need to find where to read up on how to do that.

It's in the Readme. It sounds to me that you have not read that entire document yet. Take a thorough pass through it, paying special attention (again) to the setup section.

In addition to using a playback configuration using Kontakt 5 (AU) and VDL Soundset 7.0a, I have created a couple of others using Kontakt 5 (AU) and Virtual Drumline 2.5 as the soundset and converted my score (in the original Sibelius template) to that playback configuration but the was no change in the bass drum sounds.

You're not going to get very far trying to use the "Virtual Drumline 2.5" sound set with the Template, or with any of the Sibelius default Manuscript Papers for that matter. When using the Template, be sure ALL instances of Kontakt Player/VDL have "VDL SoundSet 7.0a" selected.

Regarding the template - I actually do think now that it is configured properly, and yes, it certainly does make the $30 worth it to save you so much valuable time. ... But even with Sibelius 7 template, the snare and tenor rolls do not sound very good but the bass and cymbals are all fine. If I can't get the bass sounds in the other template to map to better samples, is there a way to have the rolls in the TWS template map to better audio for rolls?

Hehe, I know it is. It's most likely just one thing you've missed in the setup. For the most part, the quality of the playback is contingent to the quality of the samples and corresponding library programming. See question 1 below.


1) Exactly what version of VDL are you using (2.5, 2.5.2, 2.5.5)? You need to be running VDL 2.5.5 for the Template to function as it's designed to.

2) Start with a fresh copy of the Template .sib file - do not copy notes in from any other file(s). See how it goes.

3) Read up on the TriggerTest files and give them a go also.



(If you don't have a MIDI keyboard, I highly recommend you get one. Tapspace has some good/economical ones on their site.)

[Bob]

Thanks for the help, Hugh.

I did indeed read the documentation numerous times.  But keep in mind, I've been pouring over documentation and support forums from TWS, VDL, Avid, as well as watching VDL Dymystified videos so it can get a little fuzzy remembering where I saw references to the trigger tests (I've since found them).  Percussion is a hobby, but I work in IT so I know my way around software set-up and configuration, but I will admit that there are a few dots that haven't connected for me yet in making this all work.  You have the notation software, sound sample library, Kontakt 5 player, and your template so troubleshooting is a little more intricate than a single software license install because it could be one of many things. 

I am using VDL 2.5.5.  I need to get an audio file made of this project by the end of the week so I'm going to have to mix the parts from different templates in Logic Pro, the snare and tenor rolls just don't seem to be playing back properly from your template.  I'll throw and audio sample together and put it on my SoundCloud page for you to hear - I'm sure you'd know better than anyone else what the rolls are supposed to sound like in the template.  But when things slow down for me in the fall and winter, I would like to educate myself on how to customize the mappings further in the template if needed. 

We have a relatively nice keyboard that we put away and never use anymore (had it for years), but I'm not sure if it has a midi hook-up to connect to my Mac. Could you please help me understand the benefit (from a workflow perspective) if I'm doing all of the notation in Sibelius and VDL is playing the sounds properly from your template?  I believe some people may bypass Finale or Sibelius and play from a keyboard input directly into Kontakt, but it's faster for me to notate parts rather than hunt and peck for specific keys on a keyboard.  Please let me know if I'm missing something important there.

Thanks again, Hugh.  I really do appreciate it!

[Hugh Smith]

I suggested the MIDI keyboard because most people like to use one for note input. That said, I myself use a manual, copy/paste method on occasion. There's no wrong way to do it, whatever works best for you. (Well, maybe there are a few wrong ways. )

Send me the file(s) you're having playback issues in and I'll take a look. (Sent you a PM.)

Also, let me know how the TriggerTests go.

[Joe]

snare and tenor rolls just don't seem to be playing back properly from your template.

Bob, have you studied your VDL_Maps_7.0a.pdf, specifically for the particular snare and tenor instruments for which you're notating? There are specific noteheads (and in some cases Sibelius articulations, such as stems) that you need to get various roll smaples to play back. It sounds like you may not be using the correct noteheads, or you may not be aware of this feature of the template combined with the VDL samples.